Posts by Cold Steel

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Pete Zahut » According to the Bible, god decided to purposely curse all of future mankind based on what Adam and Eve did, rather than to either forgive them or kill them off before they had any children.

According to some religions, the fall of Adam and Eve was carefully planned. God never intended that man should live in a garden, forever stupid. It was imperative that man fell and that it be Adam and Eve's doing. In the Garden, man was not capable of becoming like God. Only through the fall could man gain the knowledge of good and evil. He also had to become subject to death because if he became immortal in that state, he would be cursed to an eternity with a body not capable of channeling the glory he could in a resurrected body. As Father Kallistos Ware wrote in The Orthodox Way, "God became man so that man could become God." The apostle John wrote: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Doubtfull1799 » I HAVE taken courses in OT theology and it doesn't change the fact that God did not always warn people before destroying or king them - remember Uzzah for example? 2 Sam 6:7.

Yes, I remember Uzzah. And he knew the restrictions against handling the ark, something only the priests were permitted to do. He and the other escorts had been duly warned about this restriction and the people then had become lax. Also, you don't know what was in Uzzah's mind or his heart. God did.

One scholar writes: "In all the excitement connected with the moving of the Ark to Jerusalem, the Levite priests make a serious procedural mistake. Sever hundred years of apostasy had so cluttered the pattern of ritual that they did not even remember how the Ark was to be carried. Instead of having certain priests carry the Ark on their shoulders, as required by the Lord, the sacred structure was put upon a 'new cart' drawn by oxen. Apparently David did not know an error of ritual had occurred. We conclude this from the fact that he later placed the blame for what happened on the shoulders of the priests themselves." He concludes: "Apparently the Lord saw an opportunity to impress these people in a sudden and dramatic way that sacred patterns laid down by divine revelations should be respected and carefully followed. These were harsh days and the 'schoolmaster' law was enjoined upon the people with severe strictness calculated to serve as sort of a yoke to bind them to righteousness. God's purpose was not to shackle them but teach them a rhythm of obedience."

Again, you have to know what was in everyone's mind and what the situation was. In the end, though, we'll see it was just.

Regarding the others that were killed, as mentioned by Tor, we also have to remember that they don't cease to exist (as the JWs teach). Their spirits continue to live even though their bodies return to the dust. As mortals, we don't have the right to take life at our own discretion. In David's case, he killed so wantonly that the Lord kept him from building the temple and gave that honor to his son, Solomon.

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Waton » The idea was, that if you lived by wt rules to a t, you cemented your right to be in heaven.

If I'm not mistaken, if you're anointed, you're born that way. It's not something you can aspire to.

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Londo111 » JWs do not have have personal religious beliefs. They have to believe what the Governing Body (aka Faithful Slave) tells them to believe. They have to behave as the Slave tells them to behave. Or else.

That's amazing. What happens if you don't believe a particular interpretation or you have a differing interpretation? If you're in a class and say, "Couldn't Paul have meant [fill in the blank] rather than [Watchtower teaching]?" Then you point out that the FDS has said it's not inspired and in some cases could be wrong? Would you be called on it then or later would you get laywaid by an elder?

JWs have to be ready to embrace "new light" at any time, even if it is a major leap from the old light.

Okay. You're in a class. Some "new light" is being discussed and you mention that you had always believed the new teaching, but had been "counseled" for teaching it in a class two years before. Would that cause trouble or would people be impressed that you were ahead of the curve?

The churches of Christ have a saying that goes: "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; and where the Bible is silent, we are silent." Are you saying that the Society has a set interpretation for every single passage in the Bible??

"At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."

Hmmm...that completely makes no sense because it clearly implies that they get help from on high in their decisions. Again, they've said they receive no revelation like the apostles did, nor are they inspired. So how can they say that, then say the above? What they're saying here is that they're connected, plugged in, if you will, to the Holy Spirit, but at the same time they don't receive revelation. They can't have it both ways.

Can they??

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Doubtfull1799 » The anointed ones are no longer members of the F&DS - this was a recent change of doctrine (in 2013 I think), only the GB are now the F&DS.

For years the heavenly class was billed as Jehovah's administrative arm. They were to be resurrected as glorified spirits while everyone else was part of the great crowd, destined to be resurrected in physical non-glorified bodies that, while immortal, are greatly limited in where and how they can go.

The JW artists depict them as smiling, having reunions, petting lions and playing musical instruments. But there are no roads or motor vehicles...just people. Meanwhile, those who are of the anointed class are more like God than humans (1 John 3:2). For some reason, they, like the resurrected Jesus, can make themselves physical beings or spiritual beings, traverse and comprehend the Universe and greatly transcend the abilities of those on Earth. Why should these people be subject to the earthly elders when they are destined to so much more?

If I were part of the heavenly/anointed class, I'd be asking who the Governing Body is to exclude me? After all, GB members are my colleagues, right? And in the world to come, my destiny is so much more than most elders, who are destined to a mere earthly existence. If I'm subject to the same chain of command, why is my eternal destiny so much more?

It's quite a change in doctrine.

Londo111 » Elders are expected to keep an eye on “the flock,” head off trouble if they see someone who may be “going astray”-- and that is, those who aren’t complying with the written and unwritten rules of the Watchtower. Growing a beard, going to a school dance, considering higher education, dating without a chaperone, not reporting enough hours, ect…

Amazing.

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Yes, and you quote Dawkins to prove it.

Sorry, I'd be more impressed if you'd taken the theology course.

Here's a review of Hitchen's work. Many are the same arguments as used by Dawkins.

Daniel C. Peterson
God and Mr. Hitchens

https://youtu.be/slQEE1BAqmA

Richard Dawkins and The Question of Translation

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around Kingdom Halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds. It amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

It makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that I'm just hearing about the bad apples? From what I gather, they can counsel you regarding your personal life, scripture and its application, but that it would be improper to treat them as equals in the congregation. In other words, they can give you counsel on how to dress, groom yourself, the type of after shave to use, what to read, think and so forth, even how to interpret scripture and the articles in the WATCHTOWER, but it would not be proper to give them counsel in the same areas, right?

What happens if you're friends with a guy and he's appointed an elder? Is he ordained? How does your relationship change, if at all? And who do they report to? I've seen the organizational chart and its difficult to figure out. What if you're of the anointed class? Aren't you technically part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave (of which the GB is a part)? In other words, can elders still counsel the anointed class? How does that work?

Finally, do you call these elders "brother" or do you use their title?

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Tor1500 » Jehovah got rid of you or allowed you to suffer until you came back to him. Self centered, wouldn't you say.

No, I wouldn't. It's one thing to slam the JWs, but the God of Israel was actually compassionate, thoughtful and profound. Most JWs and ex-JWs should take a course in Old Testament theology. Remember that the ancient Hebrews were a covenant people. YHWH never destroyed people without warning them beforehand. And the people of Canaan were some of the worst. I have no problem with God destroying peoples who burned infants alive or took part in decadent sexual practices with the forced prostitution of women.

10

So, you want to become a Jehovah's witness?

by nowwhat? in

ok your bible study wants to get baptised.

make sure he is aware of what's involved.

here is a checklist.

Cold Steel

If we were close to Armageddon in 1975, just think how close we must be in 2017. I'm excited! Now is no time to be taking family vacations, going to college, taking a cushy job or buying a nice home for your wife and kids (you can always move into your neighbors' nice home and plant vegetables and flowers in their spacious yard when Jah slaughters them and their little ones because they didn't take your thoughtful and profound Bible studies. It was their choice).

Now is not the time to waste in self indulgent activities like buying nice clothing, new cars or putting a new roof on your house. Don't buy your wife that nice necklace or your husband that watch they've wanted. Those are worldly. You can take them off the bodies of the worldly before they're burned.

This lack of excitement in today's Society frankly astounds me! WE ARE SO CLOSE...VIRTUALLY RIGHT AROUND THAT PROVERBIAL CORNER. The GB said 1975 should mark the end and now, more than 40 years later, we must be made to understand that the end could happen any moment!

Don't waste your time saving for your future or establishing a pension. What does it say about your shameless lack of faith?

42

Told My Parents Yesterday That I Don't Want to Be a JW

by Saethydd in

i wasn't entirely sure what to expect when i made the decision to tell my parents how i really feel, but i was prepared for the worst, fortunately, it didn't come to that.

after i told them i didn't want to go to the meetings anymore it led to a long talk with them.

they made a number of irksome and woefully uninformed statements but at least they were not aggressive and have said that they won't force me to move out over this, though, i can tell they are hoping they can convince me to "accept the truth," as long as i still live with them.

Cold Steel

It seems your parents are jumping to the conclusion that either the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society -- a publishing company created by man -- is the church of Jesus Christ (Jehovah), or there is no God. The third option, of course, is that Jesus is still the Christ, the Redeemer and Savior of mankind and the Son of the Father, and that your parents just took the wrong path.

Uh...blowing your head off would seem to me not to be the next option. Your parents should be able to explain why a God who has revealed Himself throughout the generations of man, suddenly became the passive player in how He deals with man. If two or more of the Governing Body had heard from God, or if the early Bible Students had visibly seen what was, to everyone else, invisible (and I don't mean seeing with their understanding), they would have had some claim to what they were telling others. But they should explain why a church founded by men, indoctrinated by men and guided by men in today's world should be the same church founded by Christ, who visibly appeared after his resurrection and spent forty days with his disciples. If they cannot establish the legitimacy of the church, how can they expect anyone to follow the dictates of its founders, who are men?

To say that either the Jehovah's Witnesses are the true faith or that God doesn't exist is a substantial non-sequitur. I would think the universe being ruled by cows is still a few rungs up from blowing off one's head. If your parents say that their faith is the true path, then let them explain to you why that is. Jesus never taught the shunning of anyone was of him. He never did it to sinners, so why should your parents or any other Christian?

Get a good King James Version and throw away the NWT.

16

Using violence to end violence?

by stuckinarut2 in

it really is mind blowing when we think about it : witnesses have no problem with a deity who will use violence in order to end violence?!?!.

armageddon will be gods war to kill billions of people...because it shows his love?.

thoughts?.

Cold Steel

According to Jewish and most Christian eschatology, Armageddon happens when nations that are now Muslim march against Israel and, specifically, Jerusalem in the last days. Muslim eschatology calls for the eventual destruction of Jerusalem and the Jews, and each side of this contest believes it will be serving God.

Christian eschatology explains that when Jesus descends upon the Mount of Olives that the Antichrist forces from the north will actually attack the coming Messiah. At that point, Jesus will, with a single utterance, destroy the opposing forces with fire.

In that sense, Jesus will be responding with violence against violence. Why? Probably because the enemy will continue its onslaught if he doesn't stop it.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives....
Zechariah 12

And:

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
Ezekiel 39

Fire and glory can mean the same thing and in this sense seems to. When the Muslim nations attack Israel, they believe they will be in the right, and they will assume any power coming to save the Jews will be the Dejjal, the Muslim Antichrist, and they will do everything they can to prevent his intervention.